Hippity Hop

So let me answer the question posed at the end of your post. I don't really think of the aural experience and the lyrics as separate. Sure there are songs that have just nonsensical lyrics and have a fun beat that I can get into for a time, but nothing that stays in my playlist for more than a month (tops).

We are clearly working off two very different rubrics here, and I know this because you said that "Tha Carter III goes places that conventional Hip-Hop generally doesn't." And, predictably I suppose, I would say that Tha Carter III is a perfect example of a Hip Hop album doing nothing different than scores and scores of albums from people like Juvenile, Birdman, Juelz Santana, and Dipset, I find almost nothing new about it. When I listen to Lil Wayne I am just incredibly turned off, there is nothing that I like, and I don't really know how to explain why I wasn't gripped by any of the beats (I would say that it is because they are played-out, and not new at all, but you seem to think they are new and interesting, so I don't really know how to explain such a huge degree of differing opinion). I'm not real interested in going back and finding a entire list of songs that sound exactly like "Lollipop" that existed before Tha Carter III, but I am extremely confident that I could. I don't know man, when I listen to Lil Wayne I think he embodies everything that is bad about Hip Hop, his beats seem extremely similar from album to album, his themes have shown almost no variation, and the themes that he has are very overdone. Now I understand and agree that every rapper out there just talks about how awesome they are, that is part of it (although there are some guys out there that do not do that very much, like Masta Ace from the juice crew, his album Disposable Arts actually contains and incredibly introspective song titled "Dear Diary" and the skits on the album are some of the first skits I have ever enjoyed), but I was shocked when I saw the verse from "Hero" used to buttress your point about Nas and Lil Wayne saying the same thing. Nas' next verse in that very song deviates from the traditional bitches, ho's and money and actually says some interesting things, while at the same time remaining very poetic:

This universal apartheid
I'm hog-tied, the corporate side
Blocking y'all from going to stores and buying it
First L.A. and Doug Morris was riding wit it
But Newsweek article startled big wigs
They said, Nas, why is he trying it?
My lawyers only see the Billboard charts as winning
Forgetting - Nas the only true rebel since the beginning
Still in musical prison, in jail for the flow
Try telling Bob Dylan, Bruce, or Billy Joel
They can't sing what's in their soul
So untitled it is
I never change nothin'
But people remember this
If Nas can't say it, think about these talented kids
With new ideas being told what they can and can't spit
I can't sit and watch it
So, sh!t, I'ma drop it
Like it or not
You ain't gotta cop it
I'm a hustler in the studio
Cups of Don Julio
No matter what the CD called
I'm unbeatable, y'all
Lets go!

In that one verse Nas talks about some real ass shit, maybe corporate control is played out for you, but it is still an issue in the industry that he addresses eloquently. Also, if you want to find where Nas is really talking about issues that are interesting or using Hip Hop to uplift his listeners then I would point you to a song like "I can." This is a song that LW will never every even think to put out, but how often do you hear a rap song telling kids to go study and learn about their past as a way to liberate themselves, not that often, and certainly never on a LW track. What are your thoughts on "Black President" the last song on the Untitled album where he uses a tupac line "no matter if its heaven sent, we ain't ready to see a black president" in the hook for the song combining the past attitudes of one of the greatest rappers ever (from about 1992 I think) with the current scene of politics and race. That shit is real interesting to me, and I thought the song was well executed in its concept, but LW just rarely deals with this kind of stuff.

I can keep naming song after song that give examples of Nas talking about real issues beyond making it rain (although "make it rain" was a fun song, but now it is novelty and unimportant). You know though, I think the genesis of our differences comes from something you mentioned in your first post, about how you don't really get into a lot of hip hop from the 80's or early 90's, EPMD, Gangstarr, Boogie Down Productions, Marley Marl, Busy Bee and such, and most importantly Rakim. My favorite hip hop song of all time is Rakim's "Know the Ledge" off the Juice movie soundtrack, I be interested to hear your thoughts on it. But I started with Wu-Tang's "36 Chambers" and went back to Rakim and went from there. I love the old stuff, and I would imagine you wouldnt find ANY of those beats interesting, just a guess, but I doubt you would like it.

If it is a question of durability, the greats of the industry pretty much universally regard Nas as one of the greatest of all time, if you asked Dr Dre, Ice Cube, Biggie, Tupac, Big L, KRS-one, Jay-Z, and the like, they would all say that Nas is one of the greatest MC's of all time. On the other hand, Lil Wayne keeps the company of pretty awful rappers (juelz santana is a perfect example), artists that are just inferior in all aspects to the greats of Hip-Hop. We can agree, however, that Kanye has owned the Hip Hop world of late, he is ubiquitous. Nas will go down as one of the greatest ever, and when it is all said and done I think Lil Wayne will be an afterthought, much like 50 Cent (by the way, what do you think of 50 Cent?)

But I don't know how to remedy our differences on this seeing how wildly they diverge. You think Nas is ok, but has gotten weaker over time. You also find the Lil Wayne albums interesting to listen to, and think he has matured quite nicely. However, I think Nas is the greatest MC of all time (at least in the top 5), and I feel that he has evolved as an artist and has produced some very different shit from the status quo, like the aforementioned "Queens get the money." You will just never hear a song like that from 99% of the industry, that is awesome to me that he put that on his album. I also don't really think Nas is looking to be relevant in the current state of his chosen field, I think his albums are more of a commentary on things, and he knows that this is not going to sell nearly as many records or carry much "influence" on the radio, but he wants to say it all the same, and I respect that, its not about the billboard charts for him anymore, and it is still completely about the billboard charts for Lil Wayne. As someone who hates all commonplace standards of excellence I find Nas' attitude much more appealing.

I love Outkast, although I like "ATLiens" more than "Aquemini," I think the latter is an incredible album. But Lil Wayne is not even in the same universe as Outkast, they might even be in different dimensions.

As for "Ether" and "Takeover" I will stand firm by "Ether" but I love both songs. And I really do come for the lyrics and hope for a sweet beat, but I am mainly concerned with sweet lyrics, which is why I gravitate towards the MC's who have lyrics that could stand alone, without any music, as straight poetry. Lil Wayne just will never fit that.