Hi,
You guys have written far too much for me to comment on it all, but that's okay because I don't know nearly what you both do about hip hop. Here's my definitive hip hop post:
1. I come for the hits, I stay for the fun. Unlike the two of you, I am a beats, rhythms, melodies and hooks guy first and foremost. I had a really interesting conversation with a girl at a party last night who couldn't even tell her friend recently if one of her favorite albums had drums on it because she is so tied up in the words, what they mean and how they sound. I am completely the opposite way. I suppose I trust Coke Machine Glow not to steer me in the direction of any white power music, because I'm sure some pretty questionable lyrical content could slip by me pretty easily. Anyway, this conversation qualified as "really interesting" because we had both just finished writing long papers about our own character structures, and we were able to look at our preferences in that context and find a lot of meaningful connections between our listening styles and ourselves.
2. One of my main requirements for remaining engaged in hip hop for longer than a few minutes is a lot of variation in sound and tone. My MAIN main requirement for getting really engaged with music in general is the presence of key moments that I can latch onto (I started a blog once about these moments, and it's still sitting there on the Internet. I'm still pretty happy with the writing, especially the Eddie Money article. I can't promise I won't take it up again someday).
My preferences steer me much harder in the direction of Wayne than Nas. Which means absolutely nothing from the hip-hop perspective, and absolutely everything from the pop perspective. Kyle, given what you said about Nas' not caring about the Billboard charts and defying pop hop and that you can't believe what he has dared to include on his album (your admiration of which is the best window among these posts into your process as a real fan, and the one thing here that makes me want to go back and listen more carefully), it makes sense that I wouldn't be hooked as a casual listener. I feel like Ben was right on in saying that hearing one of the newer Nas records is like being preached at for an hour. There's never been a great big hook to make me want to get into his world and explore. It doesn't help that he makes it sound ridiculously easy so much of the time. Wayne lets you know the work he's doing.
Thankfully, I missed out on "Lollipop" completely -- I've never heard the song -- but I heard a LOT of "Got Money," "A Milli," "Mr. Carter" and "Mrs. Officer" last year, all songs with production that really pops, super memorable hooks and most importantly for me, a lot of key cathartic moments throughout. Additionally, Wayne was guesting on like every other track being played on Philly's hip hop station (I'm using the past tense because I had a car last summer, and got familiar with the big hip hop hits as I was driving around). I never got tired of hearing Wayne, because there's just so much joy bursting out of his rhymes. He seems to laugh (well, cackle) at the very idea of feeling ashamed of himself and I think some of that absurdly pure happiness he deals in so well really serves to lift people up.
I used the word "absurdly" on purpose. Because I think it's the key difference between Wayne and Nas: Absurdity versus Reverence. Which rapper you want to hear could be tied to which principle you choose. Celebration vs. Examination. Letting Go vs. Holding On. Maybe?
You could argue that Eminem rose to prominence using a multiple-personality version of this very dilemma. You didn't have to pick.
3. I think we've missed a learning opportunity here. I saw a reference to "ho's" earlier. I notice that no one ever writes about "hos," no, it's always "ho's," with an apostrophe. If only there was a contributor on this blog with the grammatical know-how of an 18th Century English Lord who could enlighten us with the use of the apostrophe in this and other situations where a word is simply written in the plural and not the possessive. If only.
4. Some hip hop albums that I can fully get behind. I notice a lot of different kinds of production and presentation across these records, and of course, tons of killer cathartic moments:
Jay-Z - The Black Album
Outkast - Aquemini
The Streets - A Grand Don't Come For Free
The Streets - Original Pirate Material
Beastie Boys - Ill Communication
Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back
Kanye West - Late Registration
I never hear anyone talk about The Black Album, but I love listening to it. I never get sick of it. I would probably include The Chronic too, but I only had a cassette copy for a week when I was in high school before it got lost forever.
Saturday, March 21, 2009
Friday, March 20, 2009
A list of my Own
Word, this conversation reminded me to go back and listen to my De La Soul albums. Stakes is High is an awesome, awesome record.
Here is a quick top five for me in no particular order (I'm going to see Great Big Sea tonight in a small venue (they are very, very Canadian and not at all hip-hop, but it will be fun nonetheless).
Blueprint-Jay-Z
Supreme Clientele-Ghostface
Aquemini-Outkast
A Grand Don't Come for Free-The Streets
Things Fall Apart-The Roots
I've mentioned all of these in passing during the course of this conversation. I'm sure that I'm forgetting some but there we go.
And I'm really glad this covnersation led me to pull out Stakes is High. Sooooo good.
Here is a quick top five for me in no particular order (I'm going to see Great Big Sea tonight in a small venue (they are very, very Canadian and not at all hip-hop, but it will be fun nonetheless).
Blueprint-Jay-Z
Supreme Clientele-Ghostface
Aquemini-Outkast
A Grand Don't Come for Free-The Streets
Things Fall Apart-The Roots
I've mentioned all of these in passing during the course of this conversation. I'm sure that I'm forgetting some but there we go.
And I'm really glad this covnersation led me to pull out Stakes is High. Sooooo good.
NCAA Tourney
It is hard to pull away from, but I just wanted to say that "Tie My Hands" is a pretty good song, the metaphorical connection between the flooding in New Orleans and black struggle is well executed, the weeping guitar is nice too.
Just throwing out some of my all time favorites:
Illmatic, Nas.
Reasonable Doubt, Jay-Z
Ready to Die, Biggie Smalls
36 Chambers, Wu-Tang
Art Official Intelligence, De La Soul
Blackstar, Talib Kweli and Mos Def
Xzibit, Restless
Just throwing out some of my all time favorites:
Illmatic, Nas.
Reasonable Doubt, Jay-Z
Ready to Die, Biggie Smalls
36 Chambers, Wu-Tang
Art Official Intelligence, De La Soul
Blackstar, Talib Kweli and Mos Def
Xzibit, Restless
Thursday, March 19, 2009
A quickie
Yeah man, this week's a real good one, I shall post after 16 games of basketball are consumed.
The Masta Ace album I mentioned earlier might be an interesting one to check out, Disposable Arts. Tracks like "Every other day" and "Take a walk" are pretty solid, and the skits are honestly kind of good, and I hate skits.
The Masta Ace album I mentioned earlier might be an interesting one to check out, Disposable Arts. Tracks like "Every other day" and "Take a walk" are pretty solid, and the skits are honestly kind of good, and I hate skits.
Wednesday, March 18, 2009
Subjective Joy
I'm getting a little forced into a corner here on Lil Wayne. I do think he's a touch overrated and I am no fan of "Lollipop". I also understand that Nas is consistently listed in the pantheon of great rappers by his peers. He certainly is capable of doing very interesting things with language. This is why I didn't claim to be an expert on hip-hop. I do not consume it ad hoc. I tend to like what I like, but I'm will not claim to be well-versed in all of the intricacies and history of the genre. I will say that just because a rapper or group was important doesn't mean that their current material is still important.
As far as old-school hip-hop, I appreciate it a great deal but, you're right, I do not listen to it of my own volition very much. I love "Paul's Boutique" but I'm not sure that counts. I will listen to the song you recommended.
If we are talking about depth and meaning, I think we can interpret this in different ways. For instance, I love the Ghostface album "Fishscale" in part because of the several tracks that represent a tired old rapper sill slinging rocks. It may be a touch disingenuous but there is a depth to his story-telling. There is a sadness and a reality that comes across. It may not be touching per say but it is meaningful (he lost a lot of this on "Big Doe Rehab"). The Streets "A Grand Don't Come for Free" is just a masterpiece. The story telling is consistent and it wraps up in a beautiful little package at the end. I genuinely feel like that album told me something about life, about the relationships people have and the small lies and confusions that break them apart. That album moves me.
I think my specific problem with Nas, and this may not be fair, is my sense of his genuineness. I gotta say I've heard "I Can" and I wasn't impressed. Maybe the sentiment is nice but it doesn't feel real to me coming out of his mouth. Like I said this isn't particularly fair and is completely subjective. But I don't feel passion from Nas, I feel pseudo-anger, pseudo-humor, pseudo-political interest, etc. I suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree about this.
I will take your bet on Lil Wayne, especially when compared to 50 Cent. However, this is going to come down to our differing views about what is "conventional" and my previously referenced views on rappers being genuine. There is no joy in 50 Cent's music and besides "In Da Club" no songs that really matter.
Anyway, I'm enjoying this discussion a great deal and it is leading me to a bunch of good tracks.
As far as old-school hip-hop, I appreciate it a great deal but, you're right, I do not listen to it of my own volition very much. I love "Paul's Boutique" but I'm not sure that counts. I will listen to the song you recommended.
If we are talking about depth and meaning, I think we can interpret this in different ways. For instance, I love the Ghostface album "Fishscale" in part because of the several tracks that represent a tired old rapper sill slinging rocks. It may be a touch disingenuous but there is a depth to his story-telling. There is a sadness and a reality that comes across. It may not be touching per say but it is meaningful (he lost a lot of this on "Big Doe Rehab"). The Streets "A Grand Don't Come for Free" is just a masterpiece. The story telling is consistent and it wraps up in a beautiful little package at the end. I genuinely feel like that album told me something about life, about the relationships people have and the small lies and confusions that break them apart. That album moves me.
I think my specific problem with Nas, and this may not be fair, is my sense of his genuineness. I gotta say I've heard "I Can" and I wasn't impressed. Maybe the sentiment is nice but it doesn't feel real to me coming out of his mouth. Like I said this isn't particularly fair and is completely subjective. But I don't feel passion from Nas, I feel pseudo-anger, pseudo-humor, pseudo-political interest, etc. I suspect we're going to have to agree to disagree about this.
I will take your bet on Lil Wayne, especially when compared to 50 Cent. However, this is going to come down to our differing views about what is "conventional" and my previously referenced views on rappers being genuine. There is no joy in 50 Cent's music and besides "In Da Club" no songs that really matter.
Anyway, I'm enjoying this discussion a great deal and it is leading me to a bunch of good tracks.
Hippity Hop
So let me answer the question posed at the end of your post. I don't really think of the aural experience and the lyrics as separate. Sure there are songs that have just nonsensical lyrics and have a fun beat that I can get into for a time, but nothing that stays in my playlist for more than a month (tops).
We are clearly working off two very different rubrics here, and I know this because you said that "Tha Carter III goes places that conventional Hip-Hop generally doesn't." And, predictably I suppose, I would say that Tha Carter III is a perfect example of a Hip Hop album doing nothing different than scores and scores of albums from people like Juvenile, Birdman, Juelz Santana, and Dipset, I find almost nothing new about it. When I listen to Lil Wayne I am just incredibly turned off, there is nothing that I like, and I don't really know how to explain why I wasn't gripped by any of the beats (I would say that it is because they are played-out, and not new at all, but you seem to think they are new and interesting, so I don't really know how to explain such a huge degree of differing opinion). I'm not real interested in going back and finding a entire list of songs that sound exactly like "Lollipop" that existed before Tha Carter III, but I am extremely confident that I could. I don't know man, when I listen to Lil Wayne I think he embodies everything that is bad about Hip Hop, his beats seem extremely similar from album to album, his themes have shown almost no variation, and the themes that he has are very overdone. Now I understand and agree that every rapper out there just talks about how awesome they are, that is part of it (although there are some guys out there that do not do that very much, like Masta Ace from the juice crew, his album Disposable Arts actually contains and incredibly introspective song titled "Dear Diary" and the skits on the album are some of the first skits I have ever enjoyed), but I was shocked when I saw the verse from "Hero" used to buttress your point about Nas and Lil Wayne saying the same thing. Nas' next verse in that very song deviates from the traditional bitches, ho's and money and actually says some interesting things, while at the same time remaining very poetic:
This universal apartheid
I'm hog-tied, the corporate side
Blocking y'all from going to stores and buying it
First L.A. and Doug Morris was riding wit it
But Newsweek article startled big wigs
They said, Nas, why is he trying it?
My lawyers only see the Billboard charts as winning
Forgetting - Nas the only true rebel since the beginning
Still in musical prison, in jail for the flow
Try telling Bob Dylan, Bruce, or Billy Joel
They can't sing what's in their soul
So untitled it is
I never change nothin'
But people remember this
If Nas can't say it, think about these talented kids
With new ideas being told what they can and can't spit
I can't sit and watch it
So, sh!t, I'ma drop it
Like it or not
You ain't gotta cop it
I'm a hustler in the studio
Cups of Don Julio
No matter what the CD called
I'm unbeatable, y'all
Lets go!
In that one verse Nas talks about some real ass shit, maybe corporate control is played out for you, but it is still an issue in the industry that he addresses eloquently. Also, if you want to find where Nas is really talking about issues that are interesting or using Hip Hop to uplift his listeners then I would point you to a song like "I can." This is a song that LW will never every even think to put out, but how often do you hear a rap song telling kids to go study and learn about their past as a way to liberate themselves, not that often, and certainly never on a LW track. What are your thoughts on "Black President" the last song on the Untitled album where he uses a tupac line "no matter if its heaven sent, we ain't ready to see a black president" in the hook for the song combining the past attitudes of one of the greatest rappers ever (from about 1992 I think) with the current scene of politics and race. That shit is real interesting to me, and I thought the song was well executed in its concept, but LW just rarely deals with this kind of stuff.
I can keep naming song after song that give examples of Nas talking about real issues beyond making it rain (although "make it rain" was a fun song, but now it is novelty and unimportant). You know though, I think the genesis of our differences comes from something you mentioned in your first post, about how you don't really get into a lot of hip hop from the 80's or early 90's, EPMD, Gangstarr, Boogie Down Productions, Marley Marl, Busy Bee and such, and most importantly Rakim. My favorite hip hop song of all time is Rakim's "Know the Ledge" off the Juice movie soundtrack, I be interested to hear your thoughts on it. But I started with Wu-Tang's "36 Chambers" and went back to Rakim and went from there. I love the old stuff, and I would imagine you wouldnt find ANY of those beats interesting, just a guess, but I doubt you would like it.
If it is a question of durability, the greats of the industry pretty much universally regard Nas as one of the greatest of all time, if you asked Dr Dre, Ice Cube, Biggie, Tupac, Big L, KRS-one, Jay-Z, and the like, they would all say that Nas is one of the greatest MC's of all time. On the other hand, Lil Wayne keeps the company of pretty awful rappers (juelz santana is a perfect example), artists that are just inferior in all aspects to the greats of Hip-Hop. We can agree, however, that Kanye has owned the Hip Hop world of late, he is ubiquitous. Nas will go down as one of the greatest ever, and when it is all said and done I think Lil Wayne will be an afterthought, much like 50 Cent (by the way, what do you think of 50 Cent?)
But I don't know how to remedy our differences on this seeing how wildly they diverge. You think Nas is ok, but has gotten weaker over time. You also find the Lil Wayne albums interesting to listen to, and think he has matured quite nicely. However, I think Nas is the greatest MC of all time (at least in the top 5), and I feel that he has evolved as an artist and has produced some very different shit from the status quo, like the aforementioned "Queens get the money." You will just never hear a song like that from 99% of the industry, that is awesome to me that he put that on his album. I also don't really think Nas is looking to be relevant in the current state of his chosen field, I think his albums are more of a commentary on things, and he knows that this is not going to sell nearly as many records or carry much "influence" on the radio, but he wants to say it all the same, and I respect that, its not about the billboard charts for him anymore, and it is still completely about the billboard charts for Lil Wayne. As someone who hates all commonplace standards of excellence I find Nas' attitude much more appealing.
I love Outkast, although I like "ATLiens" more than "Aquemini," I think the latter is an incredible album. But Lil Wayne is not even in the same universe as Outkast, they might even be in different dimensions.
As for "Ether" and "Takeover" I will stand firm by "Ether" but I love both songs. And I really do come for the lyrics and hope for a sweet beat, but I am mainly concerned with sweet lyrics, which is why I gravitate towards the MC's who have lyrics that could stand alone, without any music, as straight poetry. Lil Wayne just will never fit that.
We are clearly working off two very different rubrics here, and I know this because you said that "Tha Carter III goes places that conventional Hip-Hop generally doesn't." And, predictably I suppose, I would say that Tha Carter III is a perfect example of a Hip Hop album doing nothing different than scores and scores of albums from people like Juvenile, Birdman, Juelz Santana, and Dipset, I find almost nothing new about it. When I listen to Lil Wayne I am just incredibly turned off, there is nothing that I like, and I don't really know how to explain why I wasn't gripped by any of the beats (I would say that it is because they are played-out, and not new at all, but you seem to think they are new and interesting, so I don't really know how to explain such a huge degree of differing opinion). I'm not real interested in going back and finding a entire list of songs that sound exactly like "Lollipop" that existed before Tha Carter III, but I am extremely confident that I could. I don't know man, when I listen to Lil Wayne I think he embodies everything that is bad about Hip Hop, his beats seem extremely similar from album to album, his themes have shown almost no variation, and the themes that he has are very overdone. Now I understand and agree that every rapper out there just talks about how awesome they are, that is part of it (although there are some guys out there that do not do that very much, like Masta Ace from the juice crew, his album Disposable Arts actually contains and incredibly introspective song titled "Dear Diary" and the skits on the album are some of the first skits I have ever enjoyed), but I was shocked when I saw the verse from "Hero" used to buttress your point about Nas and Lil Wayne saying the same thing. Nas' next verse in that very song deviates from the traditional bitches, ho's and money and actually says some interesting things, while at the same time remaining very poetic:
This universal apartheid
I'm hog-tied, the corporate side
Blocking y'all from going to stores and buying it
First L.A. and Doug Morris was riding wit it
But Newsweek article startled big wigs
They said, Nas, why is he trying it?
My lawyers only see the Billboard charts as winning
Forgetting - Nas the only true rebel since the beginning
Still in musical prison, in jail for the flow
Try telling Bob Dylan, Bruce, or Billy Joel
They can't sing what's in their soul
So untitled it is
I never change nothin'
But people remember this
If Nas can't say it, think about these talented kids
With new ideas being told what they can and can't spit
I can't sit and watch it
So, sh!t, I'ma drop it
Like it or not
You ain't gotta cop it
I'm a hustler in the studio
Cups of Don Julio
No matter what the CD called
I'm unbeatable, y'all
Lets go!
In that one verse Nas talks about some real ass shit, maybe corporate control is played out for you, but it is still an issue in the industry that he addresses eloquently. Also, if you want to find where Nas is really talking about issues that are interesting or using Hip Hop to uplift his listeners then I would point you to a song like "I can." This is a song that LW will never every even think to put out, but how often do you hear a rap song telling kids to go study and learn about their past as a way to liberate themselves, not that often, and certainly never on a LW track. What are your thoughts on "Black President" the last song on the Untitled album where he uses a tupac line "no matter if its heaven sent, we ain't ready to see a black president" in the hook for the song combining the past attitudes of one of the greatest rappers ever (from about 1992 I think) with the current scene of politics and race. That shit is real interesting to me, and I thought the song was well executed in its concept, but LW just rarely deals with this kind of stuff.
I can keep naming song after song that give examples of Nas talking about real issues beyond making it rain (although "make it rain" was a fun song, but now it is novelty and unimportant). You know though, I think the genesis of our differences comes from something you mentioned in your first post, about how you don't really get into a lot of hip hop from the 80's or early 90's, EPMD, Gangstarr, Boogie Down Productions, Marley Marl, Busy Bee and such, and most importantly Rakim. My favorite hip hop song of all time is Rakim's "Know the Ledge" off the Juice movie soundtrack, I be interested to hear your thoughts on it. But I started with Wu-Tang's "36 Chambers" and went back to Rakim and went from there. I love the old stuff, and I would imagine you wouldnt find ANY of those beats interesting, just a guess, but I doubt you would like it.
If it is a question of durability, the greats of the industry pretty much universally regard Nas as one of the greatest of all time, if you asked Dr Dre, Ice Cube, Biggie, Tupac, Big L, KRS-one, Jay-Z, and the like, they would all say that Nas is one of the greatest MC's of all time. On the other hand, Lil Wayne keeps the company of pretty awful rappers (juelz santana is a perfect example), artists that are just inferior in all aspects to the greats of Hip-Hop. We can agree, however, that Kanye has owned the Hip Hop world of late, he is ubiquitous. Nas will go down as one of the greatest ever, and when it is all said and done I think Lil Wayne will be an afterthought, much like 50 Cent (by the way, what do you think of 50 Cent?)
But I don't know how to remedy our differences on this seeing how wildly they diverge. You think Nas is ok, but has gotten weaker over time. You also find the Lil Wayne albums interesting to listen to, and think he has matured quite nicely. However, I think Nas is the greatest MC of all time (at least in the top 5), and I feel that he has evolved as an artist and has produced some very different shit from the status quo, like the aforementioned "Queens get the money." You will just never hear a song like that from 99% of the industry, that is awesome to me that he put that on his album. I also don't really think Nas is looking to be relevant in the current state of his chosen field, I think his albums are more of a commentary on things, and he knows that this is not going to sell nearly as many records or carry much "influence" on the radio, but he wants to say it all the same, and I respect that, its not about the billboard charts for him anymore, and it is still completely about the billboard charts for Lil Wayne. As someone who hates all commonplace standards of excellence I find Nas' attitude much more appealing.
I love Outkast, although I like "ATLiens" more than "Aquemini," I think the latter is an incredible album. But Lil Wayne is not even in the same universe as Outkast, they might even be in different dimensions.
As for "Ether" and "Takeover" I will stand firm by "Ether" but I love both songs. And I really do come for the lyrics and hope for a sweet beat, but I am mainly concerned with sweet lyrics, which is why I gravitate towards the MC's who have lyrics that could stand alone, without any music, as straight poetry. Lil Wayne just will never fit that.
What We Want and What We Get
Really? None of the hooks grab you? I just think the "The Carter III" is so much more interesting to listen too (until the end). No he's not terribly quotable but neither was Andre 3000 until "Hey Ya". He got more out of his phrasing and his persona then he did out of his flow. Big Boi was always the more conventional rapper but Andre was the better rapper, in that he did things with language and music that no one else was doing.
Honestly, I think we're arguing past each other. "The Carter III" goes places that conventional hip-hop generally doesn't. I'm not saying he's the better MC. I'm saying the music that he's making is more interesting to listen to. Even "Lollipop", the subject matter of which is completely lame, didn't sound like anything else on the radio when it came out. It does NOW but that speaks to his influence.
And honestly I can cherry pick lame Nas rhymes as easily as I can good ones. I think, if we're going to get to the heart of the matter, that Nas is just as disingenuous as anyone else. I mean if you want to say Lil Wayne has nothing to say except "I'm rich" by his third album, what is Nas saying at this point in his career?
Take this (from "Hero"):
I mean come on, he's arguing the same thing. He's just pretending to be important. Lil Wayne makes grand statments about his place in the history of hip-hop but his music is not self-important. I mean EVERY rapper talks about how great he (or she) is. The question is what music is enduring. Now, I'm not going to make the argument that Lil Wayne's music is enduring because I'm not sure. The artist of the decade who is going to be remembered above everyone else is Kanye, but this is a conversation for another time. Nas has his seminal moment. It past a long time ago and honestly, if we're talking about content, I feel like every passing album is another attempt at current relevancy and as such it generally falls flat. It comes off as contrived to me. That is what is fresh about Lil Wayne both when it's good and bad. I have no doubt he made the record that in his heart he really wanted to make and he has fun doing it. Nas never sounds like he's having fun. This is obviously not a requirement, a bunch of artists I like never sound like their having fun (Conor Oberst comes to mind) but the songs tend to make up for it. Bottom line, I just don't get anything out of being preached at by Nas.
I should make something else clear, all those records I listed earlier that I would take over "Illmatic" would beat out "The Carter III" as well. I just think in some ways he's picking up where Outkast left off. Is he their equal yet? No, absolutely not. But he's a hell of a lot more culturally relevant then Nas at this point. Is that a comment on where we are as a culture? Maybe, but there it is.
As I said before I shouldn't have been so dismissive of "Stillmatic" it is a solid hip-hop record. But it doesn't rival "Illmatic" or any other of the great hip-hop records of the decade and I'm sorry but "Ether" is no "Takeover".
and thats so LAAMMMEEE.
Whatever. This gets to my question. Do you really listen for the rhyme's first and the total aural package second? I'm just curious. I'm a lyrics guy, beyond the shadow of a doubt. I love folk music and most of that is due to the content of the songs rather then the melody, but I tend to want something different out of my hip-hop.That is why I love "Be" even though I don't think Common is at his best. The album is just beautiful to listen to. Maybe it is also that I tend to go to other genre's for my "serious" music. Most of the hip-hop I like because it puts me in a good mood. Nas just gets on my nerves. This is not a "better or worse" argument, I guess we're just looking for different things.
Honestly, I think we're arguing past each other. "The Carter III" goes places that conventional hip-hop generally doesn't. I'm not saying he's the better MC. I'm saying the music that he's making is more interesting to listen to. Even "Lollipop", the subject matter of which is completely lame, didn't sound like anything else on the radio when it came out. It does NOW but that speaks to his influence.
And honestly I can cherry pick lame Nas rhymes as easily as I can good ones. I think, if we're going to get to the heart of the matter, that Nas is just as disingenuous as anyone else. I mean if you want to say Lil Wayne has nothing to say except "I'm rich" by his third album, what is Nas saying at this point in his career?
Take this (from "Hero"):
And of course I've been the boss since back when
Rocking D Boy, Fila, velour in 190 black Benz
Now they shut down the stores when I'm shopping
Used to be train robbing, face covered in stocking
I'm him
I mean come on, he's arguing the same thing. He's just pretending to be important. Lil Wayne makes grand statments about his place in the history of hip-hop but his music is not self-important. I mean EVERY rapper talks about how great he (or she) is. The question is what music is enduring. Now, I'm not going to make the argument that Lil Wayne's music is enduring because I'm not sure. The artist of the decade who is going to be remembered above everyone else is Kanye, but this is a conversation for another time. Nas has his seminal moment. It past a long time ago and honestly, if we're talking about content, I feel like every passing album is another attempt at current relevancy and as such it generally falls flat. It comes off as contrived to me. That is what is fresh about Lil Wayne both when it's good and bad. I have no doubt he made the record that in his heart he really wanted to make and he has fun doing it. Nas never sounds like he's having fun. This is obviously not a requirement, a bunch of artists I like never sound like their having fun (Conor Oberst comes to mind) but the songs tend to make up for it. Bottom line, I just don't get anything out of being preached at by Nas.
I should make something else clear, all those records I listed earlier that I would take over "Illmatic" would beat out "The Carter III" as well. I just think in some ways he's picking up where Outkast left off. Is he their equal yet? No, absolutely not. But he's a hell of a lot more culturally relevant then Nas at this point. Is that a comment on where we are as a culture? Maybe, but there it is.
As I said before I shouldn't have been so dismissive of "Stillmatic" it is a solid hip-hop record. But it doesn't rival "Illmatic" or any other of the great hip-hop records of the decade and I'm sorry but "Ether" is no "Takeover".
That this Gay-Z and Cockafella Records wanted beef
Started cocking up my weapon, slowly loading up this ammo
To explode it on a camel
and thats so LAAMMMEEE.
Whatever. This gets to my question. Do you really listen for the rhyme's first and the total aural package second? I'm just curious. I'm a lyrics guy, beyond the shadow of a doubt. I love folk music and most of that is due to the content of the songs rather then the melody, but I tend to want something different out of my hip-hop.That is why I love "Be" even though I don't think Common is at his best. The album is just beautiful to listen to. Maybe it is also that I tend to go to other genre's for my "serious" music. Most of the hip-hop I like because it puts me in a good mood. Nas just gets on my nerves. This is not a "better or worse" argument, I guess we're just looking for different things.
Ask the bitch her name and tell her go board the plane
Mike Wit appears to have stole some of my thunder, because I think that he is dead on with his analysis of LW and Nas. In an attempt to be as charitable as possible to Lil Wayne I re-listened to the Carter trio of albums and my favorite mixtape from LW called "I can't feel my face" (its about crack and cocaine, mmmm, nice) yesterday. And honestly, it is hard to get through. There wasn't a single song on any of the three albums that gripped me in such a way so as to make me listen to it three times, or even twice. And that is essentially the problem for me, when I get into music, I super consume it, and there is nothing that I can super consume when it comes to Lil Wayne. Perhaps there were a couple of decent songs, "tie my hands" is ok, but it is one of the only songs with a coherent and consistent rhyme theme, and if that what you want (a song with a chilled out guitar beat) I would easily go with Nas' "thugz mansion" off the "God's Son" album.
In fact, I have major beef with your dismissal of Stillmatic as "weak." There have been points when I wondered if it rivaled "illmatic" (those moments passed, but I still pondered it for a while). How can you say the album is weak when it contains one of the best battle songs ever in "Ether", "Got yourself a Gun" is a better gangster-esque song with a better hook and better lyrics than any of the songs on Carter 1, 2, or 3. "Smokin" is great, especially with its oath breakdown, "You're Da Man" is one of the best songs Nas has ever put out, same goes for "One Mic." Jesus H Christ, I am only through the first few songs and they are all incredible, "one mic" is a lyrical achievement that is way beyond the capabilities of Lil Wayne, and let's not even mention (haha, no let's mention it) one of the most interesting and incredible lyrical expositions ever created in Nas' "Rewind." In the song he tells a story in reverse and keeps the rhyme moving backward perfectly throughout the entire track, Lil Wayne doesn't have any where near the talent to achieve something like that, Lil Wayne is not a poet, he may be a rhymer, but he is far from a poet, and I like the poet MC's better (Talib, Mos Def, Nas, Tupac, Slug, etc). After "One Mic" comes "2nd Childhood" a very good song that is a self-reflective anthem (something else Lil Wayne rarely attempts), followed up by "Destroy and Rebuild" a song about the state of queensbridge and hip hop. In many of Nas' songs he is very aware of the history of Hip Hop, and I love that about Nas', he really knows a lot about his industry, and he isnt afraid to talk about it. Maybe you don't like a song like "Queens get the money" but it is better than Lil Wayne saying "shorty wanna thug, bottles in the club" for the 100th time on the third Cater album, I mean really is there nothing else you have to say on your THIRD album than "I make money?". Back to Stillmatic, the next songs "The flyest" and "rule" are strong songs, I honestly don't know why Stillmatic could be seen as weak, I think it is right on to consider it a classic album, if for no other reasons than "Ether" "One Mic" and "Rewind."
It is hard to get through Lil Wayne, maybe if I was at a party and wanted nothing intelligent on in the background I would play Wayne, but I don't even like his beats, not a single beat grabbed me and pumped me up like the beat off of "Hero" on "untitled".
My title is a Lil Wayne line, I will end with a Nas line from "If I ruled the world" off the album "it was written" (which is a very strong album that I am not sure you even mentioned)
You'd love to hear the story how the thugs live in worry
Duck down in car seats, heat's mandatory
Running from Jake, gettin chased, hunger for papes
These are the breaks many mistakes go down out of state
Wait, I had to let it marinate we carry weight
Trying to get laced, flip the ace stack the safe
Millionaire plan to keep the gat with the cop camera
Making moves in Atlanta, back and forth scrambler
Cause you could have all the chips, be poor or rich
Still nobody want a nigga having shit
Lil Wayne recently claimed "I am Hip Hop", Nas recently claimed "Hip Hop is Dead"...........and that pretty much sums it up for me.
Dont know why the font is so big, that is unintentional
In fact, I have major beef with your dismissal of Stillmatic as "weak." There have been points when I wondered if it rivaled "illmatic" (those moments passed, but I still pondered it for a while). How can you say the album is weak when it contains one of the best battle songs ever in "Ether", "Got yourself a Gun" is a better gangster-esque song with a better hook and better lyrics than any of the songs on Carter 1, 2, or 3. "Smokin" is great, especially with its oath breakdown, "You're Da Man" is one of the best songs Nas has ever put out, same goes for "One Mic." Jesus H Christ, I am only through the first few songs and they are all incredible, "one mic" is a lyrical achievement that is way beyond the capabilities of Lil Wayne, and let's not even mention (haha, no let's mention it) one of the most interesting and incredible lyrical expositions ever created in Nas' "Rewind." In the song he tells a story in reverse and keeps the rhyme moving backward perfectly throughout the entire track, Lil Wayne doesn't have any where near the talent to achieve something like that, Lil Wayne is not a poet, he may be a rhymer, but he is far from a poet, and I like the poet MC's better (Talib, Mos Def, Nas, Tupac, Slug, etc). After "One Mic" comes "2nd Childhood" a very good song that is a self-reflective anthem (something else Lil Wayne rarely attempts), followed up by "Destroy and Rebuild" a song about the state of queensbridge and hip hop. In many of Nas' songs he is very aware of the history of Hip Hop, and I love that about Nas', he really knows a lot about his industry, and he isnt afraid to talk about it. Maybe you don't like a song like "Queens get the money" but it is better than Lil Wayne saying "shorty wanna thug, bottles in the club" for the 100th time on the third Cater album, I mean really is there nothing else you have to say on your THIRD album than "I make money?". Back to Stillmatic, the next songs "The flyest" and "rule" are strong songs, I honestly don't know why Stillmatic could be seen as weak, I think it is right on to consider it a classic album, if for no other reasons than "Ether" "One Mic" and "Rewind."
It is hard to get through Lil Wayne, maybe if I was at a party and wanted nothing intelligent on in the background I would play Wayne, but I don't even like his beats, not a single beat grabbed me and pumped me up like the beat off of "Hero" on "untitled".
My title is a Lil Wayne line, I will end with a Nas line from "If I ruled the world" off the album "it was written" (which is a very strong album that I am not sure you even mentioned)
You'd love to hear the story how the thugs live in worry
Duck down in car seats, heat's mandatory
Running from Jake, gettin chased, hunger for papes
These are the breaks many mistakes go down out of state
Wait, I had to let it marinate we carry weight
Trying to get laced, flip the ace stack the safe
Millionaire plan to keep the gat with the cop camera
Making moves in Atlanta, back and forth scrambler
Cause you could have all the chips, be poor or rich
Still nobody want a nigga having shit
Lil Wayne recently claimed "I am Hip Hop", Nas recently claimed "Hip Hop is Dead"...........and that pretty much sums it up for me.
Dont know why the font is so big, that is unintentional
Tuesday, March 17, 2009
Shout out to Korea
Mike, i'm curious which Nas song is that line from? Because you're right it is not bad. I need to be careful here because i'm not argueing that Weezy is a better rapper then Nas, I'm argueing that RIGHT NOW I think he's the more interesting artist. I think there is a lot more going on in his music top to bottom. I also think what he's done in terms of releasing a steady stream of music for free online is interesting. I just generally think that the music on the whole is more appealing.
I would argue about the status of hip-hop in general because while it may be that great mainstream hip-hop is in "steady decline" as you put it, I don't think we're comparing apples and apples. Music generally is a great deal more diffuse then it was in the mid-ninties.
Hootie and the Blowfish sold like 10 million albums, you are NEVER going to see that again. Also, I would hardly have called The Roots in 1994 mainstream hip-hop. In fact other then Biggie none of those guys were mainstream at that point. Now, that is a function of the fact that almost no rap besides Will Smith and Vanilla Ice was mainstream at that point, which is just further to my point about us living in different era's.
I like "Hip-Hop is Dead" better then anything he did since "Illmatic" but I just think we are listening for different things.
I would argue about the status of hip-hop in general because while it may be that great mainstream hip-hop is in "steady decline" as you put it, I don't think we're comparing apples and apples. Music generally is a great deal more diffuse then it was in the mid-ninties.
Hootie and the Blowfish sold like 10 million albums, you are NEVER going to see that again. Also, I would hardly have called The Roots in 1994 mainstream hip-hop. In fact other then Biggie none of those guys were mainstream at that point. Now, that is a function of the fact that almost no rap besides Will Smith and Vanilla Ice was mainstream at that point, which is just further to my point about us living in different era's.
I like "Hip-Hop is Dead" better then anything he did since "Illmatic" but I just think we are listening for different things.
The View from Korea
I got an e-mail from our boy Mike Witmer on this topic this morning. I'm going to post it now and respond when I get home from work.
"Ben, far be it for me to criticize one who actually makes music and has been involved in the actual creative process. I've listened to far fewer genres of music and probably would be only to be able to talk intelligently about hip-hop. I'm not surprised you didnt like the new Nas but you pinpointed exactly why. Most dont come to hip hop for good songwriting but that is exactly what makes Nas great. He has held on to these garbage producers for such a long time mostly out of loyalty (I believe) and his last 18 albums have suffered for it. However, no one in hip hop with maybe the exception of a couple underground guys and Black Thought even warrant a second listening. I cant remember the last time I stopped something I was listening to and rewound with the exception of Nas. The way he puts certain words together positions them may not always even be that deep but sound so nice together. I dont think one thing that L'il Wayne has said would cause this. And the new album "Untitled," I agree seemed to want to make more waves then he is capable of doing anymore but "Hip Hop is Dead" made a good point. I dont think he was talking about hip-hop as an art form but that the strong albums in the mainstream scene have disappeared. 2008's best selling artists were L'il Wayne, T.I., Young Jeezy and Flo Rida. 1994 best selling were BIG, Nas, Common, Jeru, Roots, Outkast and Gangstarr. I may not know who the fuck Kings of Leon are or own the latest "Now! That's what I Call Music" but if it aint dead its in a steady decline. This may be an unfair comparison and he has many a line but Nas "Through the lights cameras and action, glamour glitters and gold I unfold the scroll, plant seeds to stampede the globe, When I'm deceased, by then the beast arise like yeast to conquer peace leaving savages to roam in the streets."
L'il Wayne "Suck the lollipop"
The blog is awesome, especially you saying Fuck you! to any who doesnt like that dog video. Churn that shit out!
Holla Mike
Monday, March 16, 2009
"They Diminish, I Replenish": Hip-Hop and Meaning
I think it’s time to radically shift the conversation. We began by discussing ourselves, followed by several weeks of sports talk. The last few weeks have been focused on political issues. Thus, I think it is time to touch on another aspect of our everyday lives.
Zach and Kyle came up to visit us in Montreal for New Years. We had an outstanding weekend of essentially doing nothing, except talking, watching TV while talking, talking and playing board games while listening to music and talking. It was in many ways the impetus for getting this blog rolling. We were in the midst of a contentious game of “Dirty Board” (also known as Tock or Super Tock), which is essentially a more complicated precursor of Sorry, it is not unlike Parcheesi except it is played with cards not dice. For our listening pleasure I put my I-Tunes on random. Now, Alli and I share our I-Tunes and while we have a great deal of common taste, our differences lead to some humorous juxtapositions (think “Rain Dogs” by Tom Waits followed by “Any Man of Mine” by Shania Twain). ANYWAY, a Lupe Fiasco song came on which caused Kyle, Zach and I to fall into a conversation about hip-hop. This conversation revolved around the relative merits and demerits of Lil Wayne and Nas.
The central issue was that Zach and Kyle directed a surprising degree of vitriol towards Lil Wayne. I, on the other hand, was no big fan of the most recent Nas record.
Now, I’m not claiming to be an intense hip-hop expert. I don’t listen to a lot of Peanut Butter Wolf and I won’t pretend to be well-informed about obscure 80’s music. But our differences in opinion got me thinking about the reasons why we listen to music generally and hip-hop more specifically.
The first hip-hop I loved was The Roots. As Mike will recall we had a ritual at the end of each week of summer camp where we would get all the counselors to come into our cabin and blast the live version of “You Got Me” with Jill Scott. I was definitely in the midst of my jam-band hippie phase and The Roots were the ideal bridge between that often vapid genre of music and more thoughtful hip-hop.
The next big hip-hop record I loved was Jay-Z’s “Blueprint”. From “Girls,Girls,Girls” to “Heart of the City” that album is loaded with huge beautiful production, of course it turned out later much of it was produced by Kanye West (who it should be noted also produced the beat for “Get By” which is easily the best Talib Kweli song ever). My interest in the rapping came second, which should be obvious from my referencing of “Blueprint”. For example, Jay-Z let Eminem guest on “Renegade” and Eminem just tears his ass to shreds. That Eminem verse makes it painfully clear that Jay-Z was in the process of losing his lyrical fastball, what makes that record great is the production.
Bad rapping can ruin a good song, however time and time again a great hook can save mediocre rapping (see West, Kanye-career of). Now GREAT rapping can save a weak hook there is no doubt, but unless the flow is outstanding it can rarely carry a song on its own. It is production, not flow, which got me into hip-hop in the first place. I came for the hooks and stayed for the flow and now the flow is at least as important to me as the hook. As such, it is the writing that has impacted my own music
Now, as far as I can tell Zach and Kyle’s main criticism of Lil Wayne was that he was not nearly as great as he thinks he is. I hope that there is more to it then that because that criticism could be levied at nearly every rapper’s persona. But I have to say that much of The Carter III smokes. The record is full of hooks which in some cases save pretty weak songs. I would be hard pressed to find ANY Nas song that I liked as much as “Mr. Carter” and “Tie My Hands” is certainly more moving then anything on “Untitled”. I will say that the album lags badly towards then end, starting with Lollipop (I agree that song isn’t so great) and bottoming out with “Pussy Monster” which is just awful. I will go as far as to say there is no Nas song I hate as much as “Pussy Monster”. Please see the comments for a further note on this song that I didn’t feel was appropriate to put in my main post.
“The Carter III” is really fun to listen to, even as you are cringing at some of his subject matter. However, that has been a central tenant of hip-hop since the beginning, the subject matter is SUPPOSED to make you cringe. My problem with Nas is that too often it is not the subject matter that makes me cringe but his actual flow. I was going to quote extensively from both, but I realized that it is easy to cherry pick good and bad lines. I want to see where this conversation takes us, in order to better refine which quotes I choose.
In Pitchforkmedia’s review of “808 and Heartbreak” they said that Kanye West’s music was always about “the specific experience of being Kanye West”. I think this applies to Lil Wayne as well. He brings a perspective that I find intriguing because he is TRULY a career rapper. This is not a person who has had a normal upbringing. He started making records at 16. He’s been around forever and he’s only 26. As such he has a ridiculous amount of output for someone his age. He has ravaged Nas’ “One hot album every ten year average” already.
Which brings me to Nas. I’ve never liked Nas as much as I would like to like Nas (if that makes any sense). In fact I’m a little ashamed to admit, that while I DO really like “Illmatic”, I still don’t like it enough to listen to it over any number of other records. Just off the top of my head if I was forced to pick five of my favorite hip hop albums “Illmatic” wouldn’t beat out Jay-Z’s “Blueprint”, Outkast’s “Aquemini” and “Stankonia”, Ghostface’s “Supreme Clientele” and “Pretty Toney” albums, The Roots “Things Fall Apart” and “Do You Want More”, Cadence Weapon’s “Breaking Kayfab” and The Streets “A Grand Don’t Come for Free” just to name a few. It is not necessarily that these albums are better (though I would make a strong case for “A Grand Don’t Come for Free”), it’s just that they are more fun to listen to.
Now this obviously weakens my case off the bat. I may not be the best person to discuss what makes a hip-hop album great. There is no doubt that “Illmatic” is among the great hip-hop albums ever made. The problem is that ever since then Nas has been casting about for a new muse. He has increasingly tried to become meaningful and as such his meaning has become forced. “Illmatic” is meaningful because it represents a specific experience. That album is beautifully concise. It has no filler beginning to end, and set a standard of hip-hop albums without mindless skits in between (for which I am painfully grateful). So as an ALBUM it is genius and a lot of the rapping is great. Though with the exception of “Life’s a Bitch” I’m not sure any individual song has ever meant anything to me.
However since then I think it is hard to argue that his output was anything but very weak. “Stillmatic”: ok, but overrated (god bless The Source magazine for giving it a “classic” rating). “God’s Son”: awfully weak. “Hip Hop is Dead” was alright but it’s premise was so obviously flawed as there is still good flourishing hip-hop, it is just that Nas isn’t a central player any more. I won’t bother to critique “Nastradamous”.
All of this brings me to “Untitled”. I think I like the title “Untitled” better then the original album name, which was “Nigger”. The whole brouhaha over the title explains exactly how I feel about the album on the whole. He was going to give it a proactive title, just for the sake of giving it a provocative title. There is no interesting meaning behind calling your album “Nigger”. There was no interesting point to be made that has not been made a million times before. It is not that the word is not awful and offensive; it’s just that this concept has been tackled time and time again. This is precisely how I feel about the subject matter of the album. It attempts to be “meaningful” but his ideas are not fresh or interesting. There is far more interesting music being made about the plight of black-America. In fact I would argue that Ghostface’s “Fishscale” brings this reality to the fore better then the entirety of Nas’ career. Honestly, Kanye West did more in this vein by just saying “George Bush doesn’t care about black people” then Nas did on this entire album.
You guys told me that I just heard the wrong song, but to be honest, I felt the same way about “Sly Fox” that I did about “Hero” and “America”. They are all high on concept but low on execution. None of them had hooks that stuck with me, and the rapping was stale.
I don’t think ideas need to be capital “I” important to be meaningful and insightful.
But that is just me, which brings me to the question I want to discuss this week. What was it about this Nas record that moved you? What is it about Lil Wayne that causes you to discount him? Why do you listen to hip-hop? Do you come for the lyrics and stay for hooks or vice-versa? This week I want to really dig into what it is we like about music.
Zach and Kyle came up to visit us in Montreal for New Years. We had an outstanding weekend of essentially doing nothing, except talking, watching TV while talking, talking and playing board games while listening to music and talking. It was in many ways the impetus for getting this blog rolling. We were in the midst of a contentious game of “Dirty Board” (also known as Tock or Super Tock), which is essentially a more complicated precursor of Sorry, it is not unlike Parcheesi except it is played with cards not dice. For our listening pleasure I put my I-Tunes on random. Now, Alli and I share our I-Tunes and while we have a great deal of common taste, our differences lead to some humorous juxtapositions (think “Rain Dogs” by Tom Waits followed by “Any Man of Mine” by Shania Twain). ANYWAY, a Lupe Fiasco song came on which caused Kyle, Zach and I to fall into a conversation about hip-hop. This conversation revolved around the relative merits and demerits of Lil Wayne and Nas.
The central issue was that Zach and Kyle directed a surprising degree of vitriol towards Lil Wayne. I, on the other hand, was no big fan of the most recent Nas record.
Now, I’m not claiming to be an intense hip-hop expert. I don’t listen to a lot of Peanut Butter Wolf and I won’t pretend to be well-informed about obscure 80’s music. But our differences in opinion got me thinking about the reasons why we listen to music generally and hip-hop more specifically.
The first hip-hop I loved was The Roots. As Mike will recall we had a ritual at the end of each week of summer camp where we would get all the counselors to come into our cabin and blast the live version of “You Got Me” with Jill Scott. I was definitely in the midst of my jam-band hippie phase and The Roots were the ideal bridge between that often vapid genre of music and more thoughtful hip-hop.
The next big hip-hop record I loved was Jay-Z’s “Blueprint”. From “Girls,Girls,Girls” to “Heart of the City” that album is loaded with huge beautiful production, of course it turned out later much of it was produced by Kanye West (who it should be noted also produced the beat for “Get By” which is easily the best Talib Kweli song ever). My interest in the rapping came second, which should be obvious from my referencing of “Blueprint”. For example, Jay-Z let Eminem guest on “Renegade” and Eminem just tears his ass to shreds. That Eminem verse makes it painfully clear that Jay-Z was in the process of losing his lyrical fastball, what makes that record great is the production.
Bad rapping can ruin a good song, however time and time again a great hook can save mediocre rapping (see West, Kanye-career of). Now GREAT rapping can save a weak hook there is no doubt, but unless the flow is outstanding it can rarely carry a song on its own. It is production, not flow, which got me into hip-hop in the first place. I came for the hooks and stayed for the flow and now the flow is at least as important to me as the hook. As such, it is the writing that has impacted my own music
Now, as far as I can tell Zach and Kyle’s main criticism of Lil Wayne was that he was not nearly as great as he thinks he is. I hope that there is more to it then that because that criticism could be levied at nearly every rapper’s persona. But I have to say that much of The Carter III smokes. The record is full of hooks which in some cases save pretty weak songs. I would be hard pressed to find ANY Nas song that I liked as much as “Mr. Carter” and “Tie My Hands” is certainly more moving then anything on “Untitled”. I will say that the album lags badly towards then end, starting with Lollipop (I agree that song isn’t so great) and bottoming out with “Pussy Monster” which is just awful. I will go as far as to say there is no Nas song I hate as much as “Pussy Monster”. Please see the comments for a further note on this song that I didn’t feel was appropriate to put in my main post.
“The Carter III” is really fun to listen to, even as you are cringing at some of his subject matter. However, that has been a central tenant of hip-hop since the beginning, the subject matter is SUPPOSED to make you cringe. My problem with Nas is that too often it is not the subject matter that makes me cringe but his actual flow. I was going to quote extensively from both, but I realized that it is easy to cherry pick good and bad lines. I want to see where this conversation takes us, in order to better refine which quotes I choose.
In Pitchforkmedia’s review of “808 and Heartbreak” they said that Kanye West’s music was always about “the specific experience of being Kanye West”. I think this applies to Lil Wayne as well. He brings a perspective that I find intriguing because he is TRULY a career rapper. This is not a person who has had a normal upbringing. He started making records at 16. He’s been around forever and he’s only 26. As such he has a ridiculous amount of output for someone his age. He has ravaged Nas’ “One hot album every ten year average” already.
Which brings me to Nas. I’ve never liked Nas as much as I would like to like Nas (if that makes any sense). In fact I’m a little ashamed to admit, that while I DO really like “Illmatic”, I still don’t like it enough to listen to it over any number of other records. Just off the top of my head if I was forced to pick five of my favorite hip hop albums “Illmatic” wouldn’t beat out Jay-Z’s “Blueprint”, Outkast’s “Aquemini” and “Stankonia”, Ghostface’s “Supreme Clientele” and “Pretty Toney” albums, The Roots “Things Fall Apart” and “Do You Want More”, Cadence Weapon’s “Breaking Kayfab” and The Streets “A Grand Don’t Come for Free” just to name a few. It is not necessarily that these albums are better (though I would make a strong case for “A Grand Don’t Come for Free”), it’s just that they are more fun to listen to.
Now this obviously weakens my case off the bat. I may not be the best person to discuss what makes a hip-hop album great. There is no doubt that “Illmatic” is among the great hip-hop albums ever made. The problem is that ever since then Nas has been casting about for a new muse. He has increasingly tried to become meaningful and as such his meaning has become forced. “Illmatic” is meaningful because it represents a specific experience. That album is beautifully concise. It has no filler beginning to end, and set a standard of hip-hop albums without mindless skits in between (for which I am painfully grateful). So as an ALBUM it is genius and a lot of the rapping is great. Though with the exception of “Life’s a Bitch” I’m not sure any individual song has ever meant anything to me.
However since then I think it is hard to argue that his output was anything but very weak. “Stillmatic”: ok, but overrated (god bless The Source magazine for giving it a “classic” rating). “God’s Son”: awfully weak. “Hip Hop is Dead” was alright but it’s premise was so obviously flawed as there is still good flourishing hip-hop, it is just that Nas isn’t a central player any more. I won’t bother to critique “Nastradamous”.
All of this brings me to “Untitled”. I think I like the title “Untitled” better then the original album name, which was “Nigger”. The whole brouhaha over the title explains exactly how I feel about the album on the whole. He was going to give it a proactive title, just for the sake of giving it a provocative title. There is no interesting meaning behind calling your album “Nigger”. There was no interesting point to be made that has not been made a million times before. It is not that the word is not awful and offensive; it’s just that this concept has been tackled time and time again. This is precisely how I feel about the subject matter of the album. It attempts to be “meaningful” but his ideas are not fresh or interesting. There is far more interesting music being made about the plight of black-America. In fact I would argue that Ghostface’s “Fishscale” brings this reality to the fore better then the entirety of Nas’ career. Honestly, Kanye West did more in this vein by just saying “George Bush doesn’t care about black people” then Nas did on this entire album.
You guys told me that I just heard the wrong song, but to be honest, I felt the same way about “Sly Fox” that I did about “Hero” and “America”. They are all high on concept but low on execution. None of them had hooks that stuck with me, and the rapping was stale.
I don’t think ideas need to be capital “I” important to be meaningful and insightful.
But that is just me, which brings me to the question I want to discuss this week. What was it about this Nas record that moved you? What is it about Lil Wayne that causes you to discount him? Why do you listen to hip-hop? Do you come for the lyrics and stay for hooks or vice-versa? This week I want to really dig into what it is we like about music.
Sunday, March 15, 2009
6 overtimes
My apologies for my long absence, I was struggling with how exactly to respond to Zach's post about people not taking us progressives seriously, then my tickets to the Big East tournament were the next day and I had no time to blog whilst watching 15 games of basketball in 5 days. And yes, I was there for the six overtime game, it was the greatest single sporting event that I will ever witness in my entire time on this earth. Nothing will ever top it. That is kind of depressing and kind of fucking awesome. And now I am about to find out the field of 64, er, cough, 65.
Lost. I watch Lost, and I really enjoy it, but only because I have consciously given in to it. There was a brief period of time when I decided to stop watching Lost. I realized that it is a show essentially built upon nothing. I read novels for the story and the character and (hopefully) the metaphorical meaning that I can elicit from the text. I watch comedic television shows because they are funny. I watch dramatic shows and movies for the same reasons I read novels. However, I watch lost in the same way I would watch a freak show at a carnival. I honestly don't give a fuck about the characters, not a single one. If the show ends with the world ending, or beginning, or maybe it is all in a dream or a snow globe, I really don't care. I am going to watch, and relish in the nonsense of the show, but it is worth nothing. (Keep in mind that I have seen every episode and I also do a season recap before new seasons begin)
Shows (novels, movies, etc) that use wild interconnection to fuel their plots are fun, but if the interconnection is not intentionally planned out by the writers before the show begins then I feel as if the interconnection loses a lot of value. The writers and producers of Lost are essentially just making shit up ad hoc to keep this franchise going, again, that makes me just not give a shit. (I am also not saying that they needed to plan every single detail, but I don't think they had anything planned beyond the first 2 seasons when the show started, and now look where the fuck we are)
I am back. Who's turn is it?
Zach, if you like that Hero show you will like Lost.
Lost. I watch Lost, and I really enjoy it, but only because I have consciously given in to it. There was a brief period of time when I decided to stop watching Lost. I realized that it is a show essentially built upon nothing. I read novels for the story and the character and (hopefully) the metaphorical meaning that I can elicit from the text. I watch comedic television shows because they are funny. I watch dramatic shows and movies for the same reasons I read novels. However, I watch lost in the same way I would watch a freak show at a carnival. I honestly don't give a fuck about the characters, not a single one. If the show ends with the world ending, or beginning, or maybe it is all in a dream or a snow globe, I really don't care. I am going to watch, and relish in the nonsense of the show, but it is worth nothing. (Keep in mind that I have seen every episode and I also do a season recap before new seasons begin)
Shows (novels, movies, etc) that use wild interconnection to fuel their plots are fun, but if the interconnection is not intentionally planned out by the writers before the show begins then I feel as if the interconnection loses a lot of value. The writers and producers of Lost are essentially just making shit up ad hoc to keep this franchise going, again, that makes me just not give a shit. (I am also not saying that they needed to plan every single detail, but I don't think they had anything planned beyond the first 2 seasons when the show started, and now look where the fuck we are)
I am back. Who's turn is it?
Zach, if you like that Hero show you will like Lost.
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